CP: Cole, we’ve known each other for 25 years. I don’t think I know anyone who has been so dedicated to really understanding how transformation works. I can see and feel that something has really shifted for you. You’re saying it has to do with “resurrection of feeling.” What exactly is that?

CK: When we met, we were both immersed in A Course in Miracles. Those years were amazing, and ACIM gave us a great foundation. It helped us distinguish between our egoic thoughts and our real thoughts. However, my feelings were still creeping in so I began to look at another channelled work, The Right Use of Will. It blew my mind. Literally. The focus was mainly on feelings, or the “Will,” and on how the mind has been misused to denigrate or ignore feelings. It was like nothing else regarding feeling.

CP: Yes, I remember that I found it very confronting at first. It seemed so “non-spiritual” and unnecessarily cathartic. And then I tried the processes and saw—well, felt—what you were talking about. I’m still in awe at the power of that work.

CK: Just to inform those who may not be acquainted with RUOW. We have two parts. One is thought/electro, the other feeling/magnetic. In alignment they create an electro-magnetic field, which is experienced as love. If they are in opposition, they make a gap or split, and cut us off from experiencing. You’ve got to have your spirit ignited and your feelings ignited. This will ignite your heart, and begin to resurrect your body/form. That is the resurrection. If you are not pushing your feelings down, they begin to rise, to flower. Pushing feelings down brings suffering, and eventually sickness and death.

CP: I am so grateful for those times. We went a long way with that path. Then A Course of Love appeared, which filled it out even more by focusing on both mind and feelings, but also heart.

CK: I remember that Jesus said in ACIM (Ch. 9) he couldn’t offer us heart in those days; the time wasn’t ripe. “I cannot tell you what this will be like, for your hearts are not ready.” We needed the mind training first. I understand now that he is talking about the relationship between feeling and mind, what in ACOL Jesus calls “wholeheartedness.’

CP: And that is an experience.

CK: For sure. It’s always new, like the ACIM Manual for Teachers  says: “. . . in every way it is totally unlike all previous experiences. It calls to mind nothing that went before.” (M:20.2) Creation means creating anew, not making up stuff from the past. Feeling, when in the present, is that part of us that creates. If our feeling body is locked up in karma drama, we make stuff up based on the past. When mind is trained it welcomes all feelings, an embrace occurs; a birth of the new.

CP: I began to feel the stirrings of that with RUOW—movement and vibration of the body when I embraced my feelings; what I now also know as what Jesus refers to as the “elevated self of form”—the body, the cells, beginning to vibrate at the speed of light. So, love-creation, is very physical!

CK: Yes! Love means what I feel it is! L189: “I feel the love of God within me now,” I’m not thinking it. Right? I only know Love from my capacity to feel it. The more I am in love with my feelings and my feelings are in love with me, the more I experience complete union of the Self.

CP: The birth of Heart, or wholeheartedness.

CK: If I’m not feeling it, it’s just a mind-y idea, a concept. Love needs to be deeply felt. If you are stuck in training your mind forever, you won’t feel it.

CP: Wow. Jesus talks a lot about union, joining, and relationship in ACOL. I see that the relationship between our own mind and feelings is the first “relationship” we have to heal in order to experience newly.

CK: Yes—our personal relationship with our feelings is our primary relationship. When we are born there is no mind. Only the experience of unity. Mind came later. Now we live in mind, and feelings are an unknown labyrinth “down there,” mostly denied. This division was done by the ego. Feeling is. Like God is. Feelings are nameless and don’t talk. But they are always responding. They expand when shared.

CP: Which simply means feeling them! The energy of feeling changes the whole vibration of the being. And that’s any feeling—so-called “good” or “bad.” And that vibration affects everything around it.

CK: Ego divided the “Queendom of Feeling” or the Will of God into the mess most people fear as negative feelings. Yet when you forgive your most nightmarish feeling, it resurrects back into the love it always was.

CP: The biggest gift to me of RUOW was to discover that love is at the bottom of every “negative” feeling, too. I was always wary of going there—but when I had the courage to do it, it was always denied love! It seems to go against common sense, but my experience confirmed the truth of it.

CK: It’s the relationship of the mind toward feelings that needs close attention; how to be wholeheartedly present for feelings, because it’s only when the feelings are free to flow that heart is born. That is the birth of Christ in you. Without feeling, spirituality is just a mental idea—like, “heaven in my mind,” of “my brother and I are one”—yet as soon as a brother upsets us, we are two!

CP: Honesty is the key, though, isn’t it? You can’t just say, “I love my feelings,” if deep down you hate them.

CK: So true. First, I realized I did not love my feelings. I judged them mercilessly. I had lovelessness toward them, and also I did not love my lovelessness. It got all locked up in my head. No matter how much I told myself, “heaven is here and now,” or “it’s all love,” I was not feeling love. I was stuck in my mind.

CP: And ACOL clearly states that wholeheartedness is mind and feeling as One. Wholeheartedness encompasses all of you, not just the part of the self that thinks.

CK: Thinking is a result of denial of feeling. Think about that! Begin to feel more and your thoughts will slowly vanish—you’ll begin to have real Thoughts. Easier said than done, because the thinking addiction is a global pandemic and feelings are still a mystery.

CP: Feelings are still considered scary territory for most. If people realized that feelings—all feelings!—are the highway to heaven . . .

CK: Yes. It’s the fastest way to love.

CP: How would you distinguish feeling from emotion?

CK: When feelings are rejected, they are replaced with emotionality. Emotions are ego-constructed replacements for true feelings. Fear is not a feeling, but an avoidance of feeling. “I’m afraid of ____ because of how it will make me feel.” Fear warns you that if you go there, you’re going to have to feel something you don’t want to feel.

CP: And the funny this is, once you go there, you are going to feel better, you are going to discover love. It’s the unknown we’re afraid of. The denied feelings get uglier and uglier, scarier and scarier. But it’s just the fear compacting.

CK: You can ask God or the Holy Spirit for help, for courage. Ask: “What is the feeling?” Become receptive. Ask: “How does this make me feel?” First ego will rush in to distract you. Words will come and feelings don’t have words. Then you drop into the emotional body—tears, usually. That’s not it either. That’s emotionality. Just wait. You will drop below emotions and find yourself in the gigantic ocean of the feeling realm. The Will. The Great Mother of Everything. With that comes silence. Then, . . . “Ah.” The answers come because feelings make sense of everything. The “sense” of separation is not only a thought. It’s a sense. A feeling. Once truly connected to true feeling, the search for God is over.

CP: How about positive feelings? Do we shut those down, too?

CK: Yes. Unless you can sit in genuine joy for as long as you feel like it, you will very likely shut it off. If you habitually shut down your negative feelings, you will shut down the positive, too. Yet, creation is effortless and joy is the most natural thing. It’s inherent in you. But it’s not a “positive” feeling. It simply is. Like God is. Once you unite with everything that is triggered in you, you simply trigger Happy.

CP: Amen

CK: Amen

Cindee Pascoe is a former teacher, journalist, columnist, and workshop facilitator. Karči (Cole) Kňazovický is a classical guitar teacher, composer, and performer, a couples therapist, and a professional facilitator of men’s groups and mixed gender polarity work with a focus on masculinity. They live in Australia.